Britain needs more guns Options

[Warbz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

After reading that it seems to me the UK government is once again going against all reason and logic in trying to ban guns from the general population.

[...] public safety is not enhanced by depriving people of their right to personal safety

-Seems to sum it up quite nicely.

[TheDR]

Are you aware the article is from 2003?

[scope]

Also it makes less sense to me. If I were a burglar, I would rather not carry a weapon to avoid increasing any charges upon me if caught. Burglars search for houses that are easier to break into. If letting people privately own firearms increases the sense of security, that would mean less money is spent on home security systems and therefore increases the likeliness of a burglary. Also when homeowners get armed, it's likely that the burglars will get armed as well. It reaches a moot point tbh. If you have no weapon, a burglar would rather not shoot you.

[Warbz]

Are you aware the article is from 2003?

Yeh, but I assume not much has changed in regards to the subject.

[Rich19]

If a mugger/burgler/criminal suspects that the person he is about to commit a crime on has a gun, several things happen:

- He will be more likely to carry a gun himself (let's face it, gun crime is still a ridiculously low fraction of total crime. If we suddenly introduce a huge flood of guns into the country, ALL the criminals will want/need one.)
- He will be more likely to attack you with the gun (if he thinks you are as well armed as him, he's going to be a lot more jumpy and won't need much of an excuse to pull the trigger).

Essentially, don't fix what isn't broken. I'm proud to live in a country where you are generally safe enough to walk about without carrying a deadly killing machine concealed somewhere.

This post has been edited by Rich19: 8 Feb 2010, 15:00

[Lizzie]

The problem with introducing guns into the British populace is that, well you've gone a long time without them and introducing them now, suddenly, will definitely create some sort of chaos. Violence is likely to occur during such a time and lives would be lost. It'd be a different matter if you had guns all this time and were just lifting a level of restriction.

In shorter terms, I agree with Rich's statement of "Don't fix what isn't broken."

[Major Fuckup]

I don't see any reason for the general public to own guns anyway, i can imagine that there's no space to go out and use them anyway and if you do have space in the UK to operate one you would most likely be a farmer so fair enough to own one then.

[Mr.Choppy]

I would rather be punched by a mugger than shot.
It’s a little like the capital punishment argument, power (like a gun) can go to people’s heads.
Some police may decide they don’t have to be reasonable with a citizen because the threat of a gun is quicker.
it becomes a big game of one-upmanship the public get guns, the criminals get guns, the police need guns so the criminals get better guns e.c.t
Although I disagree with allot of our governments political decisions this is (in my opinion) one of the many few choices that I would say they have got right.

This post has been edited by Mr.Choppy: 3 Apr 2010, 22:48

[SquigPie]

Well, the question is,
Which would you prefer, you having a gun, but the bad guys got guns too, or you having no gun, and niether do the bad guys.
I live in Denmark, and there ain't no guns here.
We ain't got them
the bad guys ain't got them.
Sure the organized criminals get them anyway, but they're way to busy killing each other to bother with the rest of us.
And all those school shootings that USA have every other day? None of those either, some kid tried to stab another one a couple of months ago, but nothing bad happened.
No bad guys with guns, nothing to fear, no fear, no guns, no guns, no bad guys with guns.
a perfect circle.

[Jok3r]

Uh, what? Now, I understand the arguments here, about Britain, and I mainly agree with Lizzie above on that. But Squigpie, what the hell are you talking about? "Schools shootings that happen every other day"? There's been a grand total of about three "major" school shootings (with more than ten casualties, as anything less, while still tragic, isn't really major) since 1966. Every other day? Yeah, not so much. I'd rather we didn't generalize about America, especially without checking our facts.

[scope]

It was an exaggeration by Squigpie tbh. Yes there are more school shootings in the USA but this is only statistically.

[SquigPie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Notice size of USA's list compared to size of Europe's list.

And only one shooting here in Denmark.

And no, I'm not talking about Major School Shootings like Columbine, its the regurlar ones aswell, were some dumb bullied kid decide to cry for help the only way a teenager can apart from suicide: killing everyone within range. Cause that makes people alot more likely to love you.

Yeah, theres only been 3 major school shootings since 1966, but theres been five minor in 2010, and the year's only just started...

This post has been edited by SquigPie: 4 Apr 2010, 23:57

[scope]

Funnily enough I know someone who was expelled from school because he brought a handgun with him "just in case" (keeping in mind this was right after the July war in '06). All I can say is that he certainly alienated himself for at least a year before coming back.

[Chyros]

I think a loose gun policy is bad for everyone eventually. When being robbed for example, the most dangerous thing you can do to yourself is pull a gun. Muggers aren't out to shoot you and risk being put behind bars for life for murder in furtherance of theft, they'll try to avoid hurting you at any cost in fact. If you arm the general populace, everyone becomes much more twitchy.

Uh, what? Now, I understand the arguments here, about Britain, and I mainly agree with Lizzie above on that. But Squigpie, what the hell are you talking about? "Schools shootings that happen every other day"? There's been a grand total of about three "major" school shootings (with more than ten casualties, as anything less, while still tragic, isn't really major) since 1966. Every other day? Yeah, not so much. I'd rather we didn't generalize about America, especially without checking our facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Notice size of USA's list compared to size of Europe's list.

And only one shooting here in Denmark.

And no, I'm not talking about Major School Shootings like Columbine, its the regurlar ones aswell, were some dumb bullied kid decide to cry for help the only way a teenager can apart from suicide: killing everyone within range. Cause that makes people alot more likely to love you.

Yeah, theres only been 3 major school shootings since 1966, but theres been five minor in 2010, and the year's only just started...

Wow. That's 90 shootings. Which is definitely more than three. Especially California seems to be active in school shootings, somewhat confirming the stereotype of a California high school, I guess .

In Europe there were apparently only 17 shootings since 1913 (41% of which were in Germany, interestingly). That means a 12,5 times bigger shooting-per-capita* count in the US than in Europe. And in South America, Asia and Australia combined there were only eight, which places these continents put together at a 156,4 times smaller shooting-per-capita count than the US. Obviously it's an exaggeration, Jok3r, but nonetheless not exactly a completely unmerited one .

*"per capita" is of course a doctored term in matters that are a function of time, I just took the current population count.

[scope]

Don't forget that it's likely some things go unreported in certain third world countries. Then again many people have guns here, but after the civil war experience, they are far more reluctant to admit to it.

[Chyros]

Don't forget that it's likely some things go unreported in certain third world countries. Then again many people have guns here, but after the civil war experience, they are far more reluctant to admit to it.

That of itself may be part of the reason. US Americans seem to be very proud of "the right to defend themselves" which might very well lead to the culture responsible for exactly such tragedies.

[Kalo]

The right to defend ourselves? In a lot of states there's a "Make my day" law. That can easily be turned into you shooting the mother fucker because you are in "Fear" for your life. Easy to say and the cops will probably believe it. I'm not kidding either. I'm not advocating this I'm merely saying this is a law that is easily distorted and probably shouldn't be there.

[Shirou]

Mandatory watch:

Bowling for Columbine.

That in that I do not agree to just ban guns and expect problems to dissolve. Even though, if you consider a society ''unsafe'' when people can't go carrying around murder weapons anymore, you should rethink your motives.

[Chyros]

That in that I do not agree to just ban guns and expect problems to dissolve. Even though, if you consider a society ''unsafe'' when people can't go carrying around murder weapons anymore, you should rethink your motives.

There is a crucial difference to banning guns and not starting to allow guns, such as would be the case in the UK .

[SquigPie]

Wait....

I made a post in Political/Philosophical that people AGREED with!?!?

Oh well, you gotta be lucky once in a while.

I agree that guns shouldn't take all the blame, the general stupidity of people also seem to influence it. Maybee that explains why America....

Eeehm anyway, giving a country guns doesn't help either, since that will simply increase the level of fear, and all countries have stupid people in them, and there's nothing more dangerous than an idiot with a gun.

maybee except for a bear shooting laserbeams...

This post has been edited by SquigPie: 7 Apr 2010, 16:22

[Alias]

The only thing more guns creates is more problems.